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Post by eaglingeye on Feb 12, 2005 21:45:19 GMT -5
I have a 2 yr old part campbell duck. A couple months back she got sick. The nearest I could figure, it was botulism?! Her neck became rubbery, and sometimes she would flap about until she ended up on her back. She lost quite a few feathers too, though this could have also been due to her first molt. She lives (at night) with 2 chickens which raised her, and a new addition, a minature rooster, some mixed bread bearded banty. I gave her epsom salts in water and fed her (forced in lap) with hard boiled egg, cayenne noodles, corn meal and oatmeal mash, and she seemed to get better. She couldn't get around as well as before but she seemed fine. I also totally cleaned out the coop and steralized. They only sleep in there. Spend the day in a nice large area and have occasional run of 1/2 acre yard. Yesterday I noticed she wasn't eating as much, though when I dug up worms and plopped them in her water/food bowl she ate them. Tonight when I went to lock them up, she was on her back with a wing caught under the fence. I picked her up and calmed her down, and put her to bed. I am at my wits end. Should I try the epsom salts again? It seemed to heal her last time. She was fine for almost 2 months. Hopefully some one else has encountered this. I've asked others and all they tell me is "Heard of it. Duck will be dead in the morning!" Which I don't want to hear. Sure if she is in pain I shall take care of it...but till then I'd like to try what I can. Any help would be sincerely appreciated.
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Post by Josh on Feb 13, 2005 3:26:40 GMT -5
Sorry, off the top of my head I can't recommend anything other than adding vitamins to the water and the other usual stuff I'm sure you've heard. I'll look up some information and see if I can find anything.
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Post by Heidicat on Feb 13, 2005 9:16:40 GMT -5
Dear Eaglingeye, I have a dear friend who has rasied ducks and geese for 40 yrs and I will call him to find out what he thinks it is. I too think it is "limber neck", which is botulism.
The man is wonderful, so I will get off of here, and call him.
Will post with any new kind of treatment, the salts are what the book says. But who knows what he may know.
Be right back, Heidi
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Post by Heidicat on Feb 13, 2005 9:50:32 GMT -5
Dear Eaglingeye, well I don't bear good news, the duck commissioner, lost 4 geese this winter. He says that it is the poopy water, that they then drink and catch the botulism. His buddy lost a whole flock of mallards, due to a heavy rain that washed cow feces into the pond, it will also live under ice that forms around the edges of the waters. The outlook is not good, he said that they will seeem to come out of it, and then pretty much starve to death. I would try the epsom salts and dig more worms(mine LOVE them) as they are protein, and will at least put something in her tummy. Best of luck to you and your duck, let me know how it goes.
I hate to write this, but duckman, said to put her down, but that is so hard to do......sending big hug and good luck vibes to you!!! with regrets, Heidi
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Post by eaglingeye on Feb 13, 2005 13:08:35 GMT -5
Thank you Josh and Heidicat. (and Duck man) Well...she isn't at all like she was, but I can see it starting. I shall try the epsom salts and worms again...but if she degenerates too much I shall certainly not let her suffer. It is just such a rotten shame. Since we moved here two years ago I lost the brother duck first, eagle or owl (mind you, since he had been molesting the chickens, silly fool, and wasn't well liked by any of the foul but Jem, well...) Then Fup, Jem's sister was taken too, and that was a hard one for her to get over as they were very close...but she managed and stuck it out with the chickens. Did everything with them but swim...that she had to do alone. So now I've just the one lone duck and her parent chickens. Everyone loves that type of duck, (campbell and something. Looked at every picture I can find and havn't seen an exact replica) as do I, and I've not seen any since. Not that another would replace her but they are pretty ducks. So I guess I shall just plow on with home rememdies...just wish there was a good old fashioned one that was guarenteed to work! But that's dreaming. Thank you for all of your help, knowledge and well wishes. I shall keep you posted on her rejuvination, or demise.
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Post by AnnaXLA1 on Feb 14, 2005 12:59:52 GMT -5
how is your duck doing?
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Post by eaglingeye on Feb 14, 2005 16:42:08 GMT -5
Thank you for asking. Jemma is doing okay still. Waddling about with speed. Mind you she had a healthy dose of tasty worms for breakfast...I picked her up and made her eat...not that it took too much prompting. She seems better than she was. Plus it is a beautiful sunny day. I am sure that is helping.
My only other thought on why the re-occurance...we had a couple of pretty chilly mornings a week or so back and I didn't have time to boil water (always make time for your birds...I know, I've tattooed that on my head now) and simply used hot water from the tap to warm up their drinking water. It dosn't explain why the chickens are fine and Jem isn't...but perhaps some of the minerals that come from the hot water tank helped inflame her liver? or whatever it is that bottulism affects.
So I will make sure if we get an icy morning again that I shall boil the water instead. Other than that I shall keep digging her up tasty worms, and give her other good stuff. She is a sweet bird and knows that though I annoy her by picking her up and feeding her when she is sick...well I do love her.
Will let you know on any further developments. Thank you for asking.
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Post by Josh on Feb 15, 2005 2:23:33 GMT -5
This article has some great information: www.waterfowlrescue.org/articlesduckhealthcare.htmHowever, according to the article: Ducks that have access to stagnant ponds or other areas where decaying organic matter (animal carcasses, in particular) is found may consume toxins produced by the bacterium Clostridium botulinum. This happens when temperature and other conditions are right for the growth of this anaerobic spore-forming bacterium. Botulism causes a progressive flaccid (limp) paralysis of the neck (limberneck), legs and wings. Affected ducks usually die in a coma within 24-48 hours. So if your duck *is* afflicted with botulism, you are experiencing some fantastic luck since she's still alive after 2 months. Botulism in chickens, geese, and other domestic poultry (especially in ducks) is fairly common. This is probably because in a wet duck yard there are lots of places for the bacteria to multiply. Check here for a *lot* of info: www.google.com/search?q=botulism+ducks+care&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8I pray your duck gets better. Hopefully she didn't ingest a lot of the toxin and can overcome it. = Josh
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Post by Heidicat on Feb 15, 2005 10:35:36 GMT -5
So glad that Jemma is doing better!! It sucks when you have a sick critter. They can't really "tell" you what is going on. Though I swear some try!!
I just have to tell you my experience with worms and ducks. I had a brooder full of chicks and the other one with 4 ducklings(runners), just out of the incub box, it was the second batch of ducks, and I did not give the first batch any worms. Then with the second ones, the weather was alot nicer and I was able to get them worms. It was so funny, at first they were scared of them, and then they figured out that they should eat them..........They grew twice as fast and feathered out twice as fast as the first bunch. Oh and talk about tame, those guys would quack and complain when the lost visual site of us. We were Mom, dd and I, we carried with us garden to garden, a little pail of water, so they could eat grubs and the like and not have to go all the way back to one of the yard water places. Sorry to go on about them, but it is such a good memory. That was when we had troubles with the stupid coons. I still set up the traps, just to avoid trouble before it starts, and I havn't lost any birds since. They are live traps.
Thank you Josh for the link, knowledge is power!! It was really helpful and informative. Keep up the great work.
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Post by eaglingeye on Feb 15, 2005 13:19:46 GMT -5
Hi Josh and Heidicat. Thank you for the websites Josh. I swear I've seen em all before...I surfed the black waves of the internet when Jem first got sick. The closest thing I could find on all sites was botulism...however on the first site you sent me...well a good description is also (and more probably) Riemerella Anatipestifer Infection.
"Penicillin, enrofloxacin and sulfadimethoxine- ormetoprim (0.04-0.08% in feed) are effective in reducing mortality"
The only thing, as I say, that came close to matching the description on all the websites was botulism but the description of RAI sounds suspiciously more likely.
Thank you. Just goes to show that just because you have made a diagnosis doesn't mean you shouldn't keep trying to rediagnos...AND go for that second opinion.
"Ducks show incoordination, shaking of the head and twisted neck. Birds are commonly found on their backs, paddling their legs." - that is what she was doing a few months back. But with epsom salts, good food, and lots of worms she got better. Now I know what to get for her it should be a large weight off my shoulders...though of course before I relax I shall have to give it a try.
Heidicat. What a wonderful story about your second batch of ducklings. I am afraid I didn't get to experience that with my ducks as the chickens were much too good mothers to let us borrow them for long. Though I was able to feed them all worms...just not in the nice way you got to. I must admit I was surprised when our drakes chicken mum didn't bat an eye when he went for his first swim...though I suppose if you are as much the duchess as she...well nothing fazes you in public. Lovely story. Thank you for sharing it. How are they now? Glad to hear your coons are staying away. My neighbor -she moved a few months ago- over the year she lost half her flock to coons? or other. She has a huge wired in inclosure...but of course at some point she left her lovely birds out and though her aggressive emu's didn't get the chickens...something else did. Now her parrot calling emu's are gone, and so is she. The replacement on her side of the fence is a huge..."huge" dog. I mean it is the size of a bear. Very friendly (and stinky as he lives outside) dog named Billy. So I am fairly sure (what with the howling and barking all night) that the coons will stay away, but I'm not leaving 'my' birds out just incase!
Again thank you for your help, and your stories. I shall check into RAI fighters. Will let you know. Have a good day all.
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Post by Heidicat on Feb 27, 2005 9:38:57 GMT -5
Hi there, how is the duck? I hope that Jem is good, nothing worst than a sick critter. Let us know how she is. I gave teh Duckman the info you found, and he was so very happy, he seems to have had both the, RAI and botulism. Thank you for your "surfing the dark waves", really like that one!
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Post by AnnaXLA1 on Feb 27, 2005 11:34:30 GMT -5
I am happy that she is still with oyu how is she doing any better?
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Post by eaglingeye on Feb 28, 2005 13:14:52 GMT -5
Thank you for asking about Jem She is on an even keel...neither one way or the other at the moment. Though admittidly she is better than before. I won't say anything too good or bad...don't want to mess with the fates. It is raining today...that should perk her up! At the very least she is still happy. One sign that she isn't and I am afraid I would put her down. Till then we shall keep on. So here's to ducks in the rain...splooshing through puddles. Have a good one.
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Post by Josh on Mar 1, 2005 3:09:59 GMT -5
I am glad she's hanging in there. I hope everything works out and she's healthy soon!
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Post by geesepeace on Mar 23, 2005 10:08:47 GMT -5
my ebden gander is sick... we have a friend who is a large animal vet and he suspects avian botulism. basically he said that there is not much you can do about it...that he'll either fight it off or die depending on how much of the toxin he ingested.
i've been reading further about the subject on the internet and it seems that the toxin usually takes the bird within 24 to 48 hours. It is now day 5 of the illness and the gander hangs on ...we've been force feeding him water and grain... are we just prolonging his misery by doing this? i'm reluctant to put him down in the chance that he may rebound from this.
what dosage of epsom salts to you give your duck? and sadly... if the gander does die what are the chances of his mate surviving? As geese mate for life I've heard that a goose or gander tend to die shortly after the death of a mate from depression (i'm not kidding)
any advice welcomed... ps...how's your duck?
over and out... geesepeace
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