Incubator Help Please!!!!!

[silkychick]

I am a new one here, and think I should let the hen do her work the natural way, I am a teacher, and thought I would try out my first experience at home first, to see if this incubator idea really works before I adventured the idea into my little first graders lol, I did of course not want to break their little hearts having their be no hatch, so I started with the project here at home. My husband and I have over 28 chickens all hens and two roosters, great layers, some Rhode Island reds, Some of those cute white ones the silkies, and anacondas, I think thats how you spell them, well anyway, my question is this. I started the first eight eggs in a bought incubator, one not too costly made of Styrofoam, and it was a still air I come to find out at my first experience, I read all the directions, Its a little giant one I bought at a local feed store here. We brought in the eggs, let them get to room temp, marked them with the x and o like it said and with pencil, and knew It was going to be experimental. Well we kept the temp at 100 just like it said, and I turned the little eggs three times a day, x and o, and made sure it had the humidity right or so I thought, well, there was once in the process the temp got up accidentally by me who else lol up to almost 110, I about died, but tried to catch it in time but I think it stayed at that temp for at least six hours. Ok Ok I thought to myself, I killed them, and I think I really did, because the 21 days were up and well as you can guess all of them were fertile but two, and how horrible that was to see this little dead Chickie's, but thought I would try again and pouted for awhile over it. Anyway this time I went out and bought the egg turner that goes with the kit, and also the forced air fan, I followed directions again, kept the temp levels good, etc, candled or so I thought with a homemade candler on the days the directions said, but the only thing is this time we had a night where we lost power and it was out for over seven hours, I read the directions again and it said they would probably be ok as long as I did not try to cover them up to keep them warm, and they were not without power for over 13 hours or so, well the other thing I have not tried yet is that wet bulb thing, Have any of you ever tried that. My husband and I tried to find one at a store but a regular thermometer does not go down to 0, or whatever it says, so can anyone explain to me what to get for that if you know, so you can make sure you are keeping the humidity right.
Well Here it is, my second try and my poor little kiddos are still waiting, and I have no brooders right now, we just had some and successful chicks hatch about three months ago, so Its like two days away from supposed hatch, and I hear nothing, and honestly I think they too all eight of my eggs are all dead or some no fertile.
I am dis-paired here, and want to know who here has had experience with incubators, I mean I have not put hundreds into this incubator, but one of the Lady's at the feed store said for gosh sakes she had a home made one with successful hatches, and I want to know what in the heck I am doing wrong here. Please can anyone with incubator experience tell me how to do this, my first graders will be waiting, and waiting and graduated by the time I swear I have a successful hatch. :'(HELP in despair here.
Is it the incubator, or is it something I am doing wrong with the humidity etc.??
Momma hen sure does a better job at this lol.
Thanks Silky chick in dispair from Washington
Ps
Also I am getting tired of breaking open the eggs and seeing these little helpless, lifeless Chickie's in the egg, its just not only not nice to look at, but I feel like I should start my own Chickie funeral boxes UGE.....

[JamesC]

silkychick:
Before I get into the incubator issue, I would like to straighten out the breed name for "Anacondas", that's a large snake, what you have are likely Anconas....just so you know and can pass it along to your students correctly.
I have been incubating using both natural and artificial methods for over 40 years and have read stories like yours often. Artificial Incubation is a simple process, if you know the basics.
My first incubator was a styrofoam, no turner, no fan and worked like a charm. I still use it as a hatcher with excellent results, so what you have will do the job. The addition of the fan and turner were good ideas, they will make the process work better for you.
Here are some of the basics:
1) follow the directions by the manufacturer to the letter for temperature and humidity.
2) place the incubator in a spot that will not get direct sunlight, nor drafts, in a room that is a constant 70F. Styrofoam incubators are very suseptible to temperature swings brought on by any of these 3 factors.
3) calibrate the thermometer (check it against one you know to be accurate). Inacurate thermometers are often the problem, especially those thermometers that come with inexpensive incubators.
4) a good hygrometer is essential, it can be a wet bulb thermometer or a digital available at Radio Shack for $20.00 (accurate within 2% R.H. which is good enough for humidity).
5) sanitize eggs before setting them. If you don't have an approved hatching egg detergent, wash them with a good antibacterial hand soap with water that is about 100F prior to starting the incubation process. Don't set eggs that are more than 7 days old - they don't hatch well in incubators.
6) candle eggs at 5-7 days to remove clears and again at 18 days before they are set for hatching.
6) after 18 days, remove eggs from the turner and lay on their sides, increase humidity to the level recommended in your instructions - it should be ~91F Wet Bulb or (60-62%R.H.)
7) once the humidity has been increased, do not open the incubator for any reason until the hatch is complete. I find that filling both water channels does not provide enough humidity if the incubator isn't full of eggs. You can compensate by placing thin sponges under the wire, being sure not to cover the air holes, and wet them when you fill the water channels. If the hatcher is full, the chicks will provide enough added humidity as they hatch so wet sponges are not needed.
8) have a brooder ready at 95F with food and water to receive the chicks once the hatch is finished.

Here are a couple of things you have to consider. Most schools have energy saving programs and one of those is to lower the temperature for the weekends. You have to determine what that is and how it will affect the incubator temperature.
You asked about wet bulb thermometers. The wet bulb thermometer readings you want are 83-87F for the first 18 days, increased to 91F for the last 3 days. So it doesn't matter if the thermometer is calibrated from "0"F as long as it starts at 50F, 60F or 70F for this purpose, it will work. I use digitals in my styrofoams for humidity because they take up less room and are easy to read at a glance.
If something above is not clear or has not answered your questions, please let me know.
James

[silkychick]

James

Thank you so much for your helpful information, well since you got my post, I had two successful hatches out of my seven I placed in the incubator on the 5th, one of them was not alive and looked like it had not fully developed, another one was all there, but only made it for about two minutes no peep out of the egg, and seemed weak,and the others were infertile. So yesterday the 26th I had to assist in one of them, he was ready to come out, but seemed to be having a problem, and then today the 27th, I also had to assist, and now both are doing good thus far, and fluffed out, drinking, eating, under a brooder lamp and box, etc, so I feel pretty cool that I had at least a few that hatched, and am looking forward to doing it better the next time which is my third try. I have to say I am a little embarrassed that I spelled the Anconas wrong, I have to tell you it sure makes me look like a good little teacher, when the teacher is just learning, I think I need to go back to school lol. Anyway, I will tell you that I am teachers assistant, so maybe that explains it, I do not actually have my degree but have worked with kids in elementary for over 17 years, so I guess I might as well be a real certified one, there are often times I feel like I know more that the teacher does in some manners, just not that of chickens, which I am learning at the age of 47 lol, better late than never I guess.
I too, have been doing lots of research, on the Internet, along with joining this forum which I am excited about, and getting great advice from people like yourself which is very helpful, so again thank you for helping out with your words of advice. Honestly having Mother Hen herself do the job is sure a lot easier and less stressful, It's just amazing how she gets the job done and makes it look so easy. I never grew up on a farm even though we did have rabbits, and I think we had a few chickens If I remember right, but not like I do now, and even my father at the ripe age of 81 was looking at my How to Raise Chicken book and was amazed at some things in there that he did not know, and He was raised on a farm when he grew up, or shall I say they always called it a farm even though honestly I can not remember it being one lol, I mean a farm to me is chickens, ducks, pigs, you know like Old McDonald song lol, and my grandmother and grandfather were dutch, had lots of potatoes, dahlia's, raspberries, so I guess in a sense since there were lots of raspberry fields that is considered a farm, Who knew lol? Well Here I am one day getting chickens given to us, a husband working all weekend to build the coop which is incredible, its like a fancy hotel for them lol not kidding, he designs things for a living on his job, so that is where building a chicken coup was no problem and he had it done in one weekend, we are going to expand it because we are getting more and more, we started out with like 9 mostly Rhode Island Reds, etc and Yes Anconas, and Silkies, then through the grape vine someone else he works with heard we had some, they had to move and could not keep theirs so we ended up with another rooster, and 9 more, making it 18, and now since then two of the silks had babies about three months ago, and now we have 24, plus my two incubator one makes 26, and I am going to be putting another 13 in the incubator so hopefully I will get some more, we have pure bread silkies, and two of the little ones are a mix from our black rooster. So anyway that is how I got into chicken stuff. I just love it, and its a fun project, we get the green eggs, which people think are so cool, and eggs coming and going to friends, and enough for a life time it seems.
I do have a question since I just got through writing you a book lol, I did not know you should wash your eggs with that soap stuff, I have heard its not good to wash them is that true? Or is it just because you are putting them in the incubator.
Something else I just read on the Internet, who knows if this is true, is someone said he did a dry incubator which does not make sense to me, and said he got a perfect hatch rate almost all the time after he started to do this, I thought that to be a little weird, so just wanted to know if you have ever heard such a thing?
I will follow your advice honestly, and I think I know what happened to make this sorta successful only two, but I have a better idea now on what to do.
The only thing I do not have yet is that wet bulb thermometer, so that is something we need to get.
Another question isit seems that the chicks are having a hard time getting out or poking through the shells, could this be because there is not enough moisture in the incubator? I also notice when you boil especially the green type eggs, the shells are pretty hard to peal, Do you have any idea what could be causing this? They needed I disagreeistance which I will tell you is a little scary helping them out of the egg, plus they were overdue, Now I am thinking it could of been our seven hour power outage here at our house that one night, and then a few hours another night, I live in Washington State, so it gets windy and weather weird around here sometimes, so you never know when your going to have stormy night, and I saw you are from Vancouver. B. C. you are not actually far from me really, depending on where in Vancouver you live, but If you come down to the States a lot, we live South of Bellingham, in-fact the girl band I am in, three of our gals come from over the border in Surrey, I play on a worship team and we practice in Lynden at Christ the King there often, so we are kinda like neighbors, which is cool and so our weather climates I am sure are similar.
Well the help and assistance on my eggs in hatching, like I said is scary, and I hope this next hatch of eggs they have a better time coming out and are on time so It will not be so nerve-wracking.
Thanks James for reading my book lol.

[JamesC]

silkychick:
Wow, I'll try to respond to your questions but if I miss something, please let me know.
Yes, we are neighbours. I live in Aldergrove and can be at the border in 10 minutes from my home, so you're about 45 minutes away. Glad to meet you neighbour.
Assistance in hatching:
It is my belief that chicks should not be assisted. If everything is done right (ie) correct temperature and humidity throughout, then the chicks should be able to hatch on their own. When I first started using incubators (Moses was a little boy then), I found that chicks which couldn't hatch on their own usually had a physical problem and later had to be euthanized. In your case, you did the right thing but I suspect it was because you didn't keep the incubator closed during the last 3 days so humidity was lost or you hadn't increased the humidity enough. As I advised in my first reply, I put wet sponges under the wire to give small hatches enough humidity so the chicks can make it on their own.
Dry Hatching:
I know of the method and have a great deal of respect for the man who has mastered the technique and made it known to a lot of people. His name is Bill Worrell who used to have a website but has since closed it down. Bill's method is not really dry incubation. He has constructed special incubator rooms in which he keeps the humidity in the whole room very high. The result is that the incubator is taking in enough humidity with air that development of the embryos is not adversely affected. He does add a little water to his incubators for the last 3 days. Unfortunately some very vocal people on these boards have spread the Dry Incubation Method around without explaining the whole concept. In areas of the U.S. and Canada where there is high humidity naturally there can be success. I would not suggest that anyone new to the process try it. As they get experience and successful hatches behind them, I say go ahead but understand the principles first.
Washing Eggs:
I have read a lot about this on Poultry Boards and for some reason most people think that eggs will be ruined if washed. Here's what I believe. When eggs are laid, they are wet. As they dry, this wet coating becomes what is known as the "bloom" and does protect the eggs from bacteria entering the pores. However, I believe that if eggs are not washed then the bacteria, which is on the eggs, will enter your incubator and will thrive - waiting for an opportunity. I use Tek Trol, a detergent formulated for washing hatching eggs before any go into my machines. I also spray the insides of my machines every week as I set new eggs, as a precaution. All eggs that I sell for consumption are also washed with Tek Trol, I won't sell an egg to anyone which might be harmful. Believe me, commercial hatcheries and commercial egg producers all wash their eggs. As long as it is done with Tek Trol at the correct dosage and the correct temperature, you will do no harm to the egg.
Never set an egg that is cracked and if it has so much dirt on it that the shell is stained after washing, there is a good chance that bacteria has already entered the pores, so it should not be set anyway.
Peeling boiled eggs:
The reason your eggs don't peel well is that they are very fresh. You have to options: 1) leave some eggs on your kitchen counter to age for about 10 days and they will peel well. 2) after boiling fresh eggs, immediately cool them in ice water. This will make the contents shrink away from the shell membrane and they will peel just fine. They must be left to cool thoroughly before peeling.
Delayed Hatch:
Your power outage is the reason why the eggs hatched late. A 7 hour outage will result in a 1 day delay, so when that happens, give them at least one more day before opening the incubator.
I hope the above has answered your questions.
James

[silkychick]

You have been so helpful, and once again thank you for reading my book, maybe someday we will run into each other, you never know, since we live so close and can exchange chicken stories in person lol. Kinda funny if you think about it, when your talking on here and come to find out that we are pretty close to each other, so to you neighbor too, I think I told you I live in Skagit County now, but my family is from Bellingham, and lots of close friends are right over the border also and in the Lynden area, we probably have shopped at the same dairy, you know the one right over the Lynden Border, Eidleen, well its one of my favorite places to buy ice cream, and a lot cheaper than normal. I love B. C. and since I have lived in Washington all my life, I have been up in your neck of the woods many times and all over up there, so its cool talking to someone from the same area or close to it.
I am sorry I wrote so much in one setting for you, but there is just so much I am learning so I am sorry If I Kept you reading so long.
Anyway as far as the humidity part goes that is my only concern mostly learning all about that, I mean on my Styrofoam incubator, you have to open that incubator to add the water, it seems to drain out alot because now since I have a forced air in there now, that is my biggest concern, I know you loose some of it when you have to open it, so that is why I am wondering how to continue doing this when the water goes low, and then especially on those last three days you say are so critical to not opening it at all, so how do you do this?
You also mentioned in your prior note to me that you can get that thermometer at Radio Shack? Its called a Hydrometer is that right? At first we could not figure that stuff all out because you can not obviously use a regular household one, so that is what I am having issues with, but will go there tomorrow on Saturday and see what I can find.
Anyway chicks that I have are doing great, and I did what you told me to, I washed the eggs with a bacterial soap that is all I had right now, but will look for the other stuff you mentioned. and placed my new ones in, cleaned out the incubator really good with bleach etc, washed it down really good, and marked the eggs with a pencil, time placed etc, I have now placed 17 eggs in it, so hopefully this time I will have a better idea what I am doing, will let you know. The two little ones I have are adorable right now, both black ones, and peeping good, drinking good so far, pecking, and seem happy, so time will tell, and do not look like they have any problems right now, still getting their little walking techniques down, but so far so good.
Anyway the only question I mainly have for you now is the incubator opening and putting the water in it, how do you do that without loosing important humidity?
Thanks do much James
Talk at you soon
Karrie

[JamesC]

Karrie:
I'm always happy to help. Keep the questions coming. You don't have to worry about opening the incubator during the first 18 days. Once closed again, the humidity will quickly come back up. It is very important that it not be opened after the 18th day as I wrote before and there is no need to. If you fill the water channels they will not go dry within 3 days. Placing thin sponges under the wire is also helpful with small batches, just soak them when you fill the water channels and they will also still be damp after the hatch is complete.
When you say "I have now placed 17 eggs in it", I hope you put them all in at the same time - you don't want a staggered hatch. Staggering hatches forces you to open the incubator to retrieve chicks that might be getting hungry and thirsty before the others are hatched. The unhatched can then get stuck because the humidity has been lost.
At Radio Shack you should ask for a Thermometer/Hygrometer. Don't trust the thermometer part; they are not accurate enough so keep your other thermometer in for that. With one of mine, I have learned that if the thermometer reading is 97F that the temperature on my incubator thermometer will read 100F. I also keep a Thermometer/Hygrometer in the room outside of the incubator. Fluctuations in the room's temperature and humidity will be important to check if you notice sudden changes inside the machine.
By the way, which of your hens are laying green eggs? I guess some of your birds are crossed with Araucanas or Ameraucanas for that to be the case.
James

[silkychick]

HI James,
Thanks again for your information, It is so helpful and I just love this forum. I would love to get your e-mail if possible, so If you would like you can send it to me, so I can send you some pics of the flock and then maybe you could let me know what I do have in terms of breed.
I do know that I have the Araucanas, and Rhode Island Reds may be crossed with them not sure, and I do have purebread Silkys, I just love them although as you know they make great brooders, but we will be culling some down the road, and they are not the ones we will be doing that too, and adding fresh. Do you Cull any of yours, We like some for the eggs layers, and there will be some that will be going our freezer, My hubby is the one that will be doing that, I do not think I could watch, and some I will not let him, they are my little buddies, but I guess that is the way to chicken farming. I bought the Radio Shack Hygrometer and so far so good, Its keeping the levels just right, and as you know lets you know when its not, we have the other part to it out in our living area, because right now the incubator is located in our spare bedroom, where right now I also have my little new chicks. Which brings me up to another question? I want to know since I have the little chickies in a pretty even temp room, I have them in a large container, I have fir shavings down in there for them, water, and chick food, and above I have a red bulb 250 watt, its like the one I have out in the main chicken coup, and in our brooder area out there, we have our silkys that were hatched in August out there with the moms, and one rooster which we had to keep in there because he was fighting too much with our other rooster, so I just wanted to know how long to keep them in there before I can let them out to be with the other hens etc, and If the bulb I have in the room with them right now is too warm for inside temps. We have been running our wood stove these past few days with the high winds etc, and so our living area is pretty warm, but back there not so much because I keep that door closed to keep our cat out. When would you suggest putting them outside at how many weeks etc.?
As far as the blue/green eggs, Yes we have them and from the Araucanas which could be mixed, so Like I said If you can send me your personal e-mail I could send you pics, not sure how that goes on there or what the rules are.....
I am watching my meters and temps and things are working good so far, following the temp inside the incubator the one that came with it, and relying on the humidity on the Radio Shack one..
Also when you get to almost hatching time, how long after they hatch do you keep them inside the incubator, I placed my other ones when they were fully fluffed out, but they seem to hatch and crawl around in that tiny space in there, and now that I have placed 18 eggs and yes I placed them at the same time, I do not want them to get over crowded when they start hatching, so How is the best way to do that, because some hatch before others etc, and then like I said you have to keep opening the incubator to grab first ones out to place them, and so one, so just wondering how is the best way to do this?
Thanks again
Silky Chick
Karrie

[JamesC]

Karrie:
You can get email addresses by clicking on the name of the poster. Feel free to do that anytime. Some of the others on the board might like a look at your flock as well though.
Since you have the chicks inside of your house in a small brooder, I think the 250 watt bulb may be too much. Day old chicks need 95F. I use a regular 100 watt bulb inside and 250 watt if the brooders are in my unheated garage. My brooders are made from plastic storage boxes. I'll try to take a picture and send along. They are easy to make and with the top in place you don't have to worry about the cat.
I don't know what your coop set up is but I don't put young birds with old birds until the youngest are 1 year old. If that can't be done, you should wait until they start to lay. At that age they can fend for themselves.
When your eggs are hatching, you should not open the incubator. Yes the chicks will be moving around but the incubator should not be opened until the hatch is over. Opening to removed chicks which have hatched is a big mistake. My eggs are set on Saturdays, so hatches are usually over by Sunday mornings but I don't take the chicks out until late Sunday if all are hatched but they will be OK until Monday mornings to be sure all are hatched and most are dry. Chicks can do without food and water for their first 72 hours so they will not be harmed.
James